What's the mood of the crowd? That is usually how wrestling matches are decided reguardless of strengths and weaknesses. What it the most entertainment for the crowd right now?
Having Tenshi get count out at 3, or have her do something to counter Sakuya?
_cf said: As if the fight between Remilia and Sakuya wasn't scripted to happen in 2010 and all those hundreds of strips aren't just leading to it.
People usually don't care to read something so painfully predictable, in both set up and outcome.
Heavy_Weapons_Guy said: I actually hope this match is done, simply because, if it goes on much longer, Missing Servants will be in really rough shape against Moriya...
It has to end before they're too tired so that the next match have a semblance of being even.
You mean the immortals as IIRC, they face whoever wins this. And I don't see them losing to Sakuya and Suika, not if they were able to beat Komachi and Shikieiki. To show otherwise would suggest a critical fail of the plot armor for the immortals.
Tenshi's the one pinned not Okuu; even if you meant to get past suika I don't think there'd be enough time to transform get past her, transform back and attack to stop the 3 count.
StriderTuna said: People usually don't care to read something so painfully predictable, in both set up and outcome.
Oh, they absolutely do, and this comic is the best proof. People love to pretend it's an actual fight happening, even if the ending is predicted from the first issues. Here's how this ends: Sakuya and Remilia have a fight on the finals, Red 75% wins, but Remilia and Sakuya have a newfound respect for each other.
Spoilers are an absolutely overrated thing, all that matters is how the story is told. Orange Jelly is a good storyteller.
For all the talk in the comments of the other strips about how tenshi defense and how she recovers so fast is OP, the oni and maid sure are giving her a lesson in that two things
_cf said: Oh, they absolutely do, and this comic is the best proof. People love to pretend it's an actual fight happening, even if the ending is predicted from the first issues. Here's how this ends: Sakuya and Remilia have a fight on the finals, Red 75% wins, but Remilia and Sakuya have a newfound respect for each other.
Spoilers are an absolutely overrated thing, all that matters is how the story is told. Orange Jelly is a good storyteller.
There's absolutely no way that story could be told that wouldn't suck. Revolving the story around the two least interesting characters.
StriderTuna said: People usually don't care to read something so painfully predictable, in both set up and outcome.
You mean the immortals as IIRC, they face whoever wins this. And I don't see them losing to Sakuya and Suika, not if they were able to beat Komachi and Shikieiki. To show otherwise would suggest a critical fail of the plot armor for the immortals.
No, the Immortals are up against Red 75% next. Moriya is against whoever wins this match (otherwise there would have been no point in the first match with Moriya and Team Lotus Star White Tiger)...If it had been the Immortals, their opponent would have been Ran and Chen.
From Episode 850: 4th Match: Semifinals Team Moriya vs. Winner of the Second Match 3rd Match: Semifinals Red 75% vs. Immortal Combination 2nd Match: Second Round Rematch Rogue Servants Combination vs. Sky Combination 1st Match: Exhibition Match Team Moriya vs. ????
Magus said: There's absolutely no way that story could be told that wouldn't suck. Revolving the story around the two least interesting characters.
A cursory look into the leading shounen manga series shows that yes, you can in fact revolve the story around the least interesting characters.
Actually, it seems to be almost a rule in the shounen genre that the more colorful a character is, the more fated they are to fade to irrelevance after their particular arc.
ftahgn said: Funny thing, though. The comments on the strips here are more or less identical to what you'd see on a wrestling forum during show time or PPV time.
Which gives me hope that the commenters are actually all smarks and this is a kind of collective performance art.
Or, in the cynical imageboard perception, trolls trolling trolls.
The Western IWC wants believable unpredictability. Notice how often WWE gets railed on for failing the latter and how often TNA gets railed on for failing the former.
This strip goes back and forth between failing both; I guarantee the complaining would slow down big time if that stops.
Possibly. On the other hand, since there's not much of a face-heel dynamic it's easier to root for other teams, so there's a lot of frustration when the match is decided.
_cf said: A cursory look into the leading shounen manga series shows that yes, you can in fact revolve the story around the least interesting characters.
Actually, it seems to be almost a rule in the shounen genre that the more colorful a character is, the more fated they are to fade to irrelevance after their particular arc.
Shounen isn't exactly known for great storytelling either. That's not a coincidence.
ftahgn said: Possibly. On the other hand, since there's not much of a face-heel dynamic it's easier to root for other teams, so there's a lot of frustration when the match is decided.
Of course, and valuing favorites over the face/heel dichotomy is also true of pro wrestling (look at how /wooo/ flips its shit whenever Ziggler loses, for example).
I think what the major underlying problem with this series is is that Shirou used/uses, at most, just Kinnikuman as his source material. I suspect he did little to no research into "real" pro wrestling; his writing lends itself very strongly to this idea. This is another reason why there's been so much anger - the series is borderline insulting to pro wrestling fans. I can't speak for anyone else, but if I were to write a long Touhou story about some popular modern culture thing, I would make sure I was as well-versed in that thing as possible. A readidy obvious example of the right way to do research before writing is The Big Bang Theory, which actually attempts to be scientifically accurate.
ftahgn said: Possibly. On the other hand, since there's not much of a face-heel dynamic it's easier to root for other teams, so there's a lot of frustration when the match is decided.
I wouldn't say that it's absent, it's just that faces have been dropping like a sack of bricks since round 1.
I wouldn't say there are few/no faces left - it's more that Heavenly Sky are the only really likeable faces left. I would wager that Red 75% and at least Sanae are supposed to be faces, it's just that they've been written so poorly that it's very easy to not want to root for them, if not actively root against them.
Kilgamayan said: Of course, and valuing favorites over the face/heel dichotomy is also true of pro wrestling (look at how /wooo/ flips its shit whenever Ziggler loses, for example).
I think what the major underlying problem with this series is is that Shirou used/uses, at most, just Kinnikuman as his source material. I suspect he did little to no research into "real" pro wrestling; his writing lends itself very strongly to this idea. This is another reason why there's been so much anger - the series is borderline insulting to pro wrestling fans. I can't speak for anyone else, but if I were to write a long Touhou story about some popular modern culture thing, I would make sure I was as well-versed in that thing as possible. A readidy obvious example of the right way to do research before writing is The Big Bang Theory, which actually attempts to be scientifically accurate.
That's a rather snobbish thing to say. Dei DID research what he wanted to use in this, Kinnikuman and Touhou, Kinnikuman may be based on wrestling but real wrestling isn't what he's going for here.
As for this match, to cf. You really think Lost Servants is going to win this right now? Then you need to re-read the previous strips because none of the matches have ended like this. Red 200% V.S. Team Moriya is the closest you get and Sanae immediately backed out of that win.
I don't want to play into what everyone has said about the same arguments over and over again but I guess I can't help but do it. Tenshi and Okuu participating in this tournament has been something that's been built up almost from the very beginning and they've gone through a lot to make it this far and a lot of people have fought hard and sacrificed a lot to get them to this point. That has more weight to it than the Sakuya/Remilia dynamic because its had much more time devoted to it. Every match has some sort of emotion to its finale and most of the times it's been the team with the most development in that match that lost. Ghost/Rabbit Union had the drama of them being weak and cheaters but going on anyway, Frozen Sunflowers had the drama of Yuka appreciating Cirno, Kirisame Familiar also had the drama with them being weaklings pushing themselves to the limit, Keine and Moku had the drama with their friendship and Mokou's immortality. Which team in this match has been showing those signs? Lost Servants, with their inner thoughts about having a reliable partner.
SpecterVonBaren said: I don't want to play into what everyone has said about the same arguments over and over again but I guess I can't help but do it. Tenshi and Okuu participating in this tournament has been something that's been built up almost from the very beginning and they've gone through a lot to make it this far and a lot of people have fought hard and sacrificed a lot to get them to this point. That has more weight to it than the Sakuya/Remilia dynamic because its had much more time devoted to it.
I can respect the efforts of those who helped them.. just not Tenshi's arrogance (even in canon) at trying to defeat people in their own fields of expertise (not to mention succeeding at it). And.. to be honest, wanted the magicians (Byakuren and Marisa's team) to win, but.. maybe next time.
Every match has some sort of emotion to its finale and most of the times it's been the team with the most development in that match that lost.
......
Which team in this match has been showing those signs? Lost Servants, with their inner thoughts about having a reliable partner.
true, but it's at least funny to see Tenshi receiving some sort of payback (her own head-related gimmick, Okuu not being able to get off from someone's hold -- unless she uses her Chekhov's Gun, as noted by people above -- unlike that incompetent Shou -- and having her own strength being used to hold her on Sakuya's pin, apparently). Since I've seen Reimu escape a pin (and Remilia too) at the last moments, I wouldn't be Kogasa'd if Tenshi manages to get off somehow. Maybe something involving Okuu's remaining limbs?
Kilgamayan said: I wouldn't say there are few/no faces left - it's more that Heavenly Sky are the only really likeable faces left. I would wager that Red 75% and at least Sanae are supposed to be faces, it's just that they've been written so poorly that it's very easy to not want to root for them, if not actively root against them.
True, as Red 75% while not heelish isn't exactly entertaining or likable (Reimu exploiting Remilia at the shrine doesn't do her any favor)
Sanae is gaining some likability but it's offsetting the way her first two matches were won (again fan favorites/decent shots to win). The Match against Byakuren was the first one that felt like Sanae actually won it as opposed to being helped by a Miracle. Suwako's recovering from a hellish Heel streak.
The Rogue servants are mainly neutral but hindered some by the impression that They're in Yukari's pocket. (If Heaven Sky was Stone Cold Steve Austin, the servants would be one of Vince McMahon's enforcers)
And the immortals? Obviously fake faces and for all the stuff about building up friendship, it's ultimately a failure. And that's not touching upon the high grade plot power they somehow got between the match against each other and the match against Higan.
The Shounen comparison is rather accurate in the face of some of the asspulls going around.
Kilgamayan said: The Western IWC wants believable unpredictability. Notice how often WWE gets railed on for failing the latter and how often TNA gets railed on for failing the former.
This strip goes back and forth between failing both; I guarantee the complaining would slow down big time if that stops.
This is the gist of the series' main flaw, either it's VERY predictable or very unbelievable.
Gensokyo Tag Tournament does better in that regard as for one, there's not so many limits so characters can shine better in their strong suit.
Freya211 said: Tenshi's the one pinned not Okuu; even if you meant to get past suika I don't think there'd be enough time to transform get past her, transform back and attack to stop the 3 count.
Hey... if Tenshi has been holding back some hidden transformation, she should be using it too.
But of course I meant Okuu... she trained not just to be able to transform in and out, but to do so *quickly* so she couldn't be caught vulnerable. It's also been established that she's fast in the air in this fight. And if you don't think that she couldn't do it fast enough when Aya's just at "two", then you haven't been reading this strip very long... the way Aya counts, Okuu could probably beat it if the count was at "2.9".
It seems that she's immobilized somehow!!Suika has already jumped to the other side!
...been decided?!!
TightlyHas this match...
Tenshi-san!!Although its main usage is for defense.
-MaidI-...!!I can't counter it?!And the count has started!So you can use it like that, huh?Episode 959: FixationFrom the Artist's Pixiv page.I learned this technique from the Gap Youkai.
-MaidGrrr... as if this level can-!!
-PeachWhoa!!Oh.Now, the celestial has both of her shoulders touching the mat!!
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