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AlsoSprachOdin said in comment #2642194:

Please be more specific, because I find your worries extremely unlikely. What do you mean by "removed from public life" in practical terms? Surely you aren't just referring to women's shelters.

By and large, anything that keeps me out of women's bathrooms will also keep me out of all public bathrooms. I do not look like the typical end-user for a men's bathroom (i.e. tits, hips, dresses); men do not typically permit people who look like me to use their bathrooms. Any push to "protect women's spaces" which includes women's bathrooms means that I will be at risk going to basically any public place.

JK's "Beira's Place" was already founded on the principle that a women's space needs to exclude trans women – and, nota bene, Scotland police increasingly often refer women to Beira's Place phone operators for rape crises, and Beira's Place will not serve transgender women. Trans women are assaulted at pretty significant rates.

It's true that I'm not expecting to be rounded up or banned from going out, but I hope you can recognize the through-line from her existing politics and beliefs to a scenario in which going outside is a risk to my health and dignity.

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verifiably said in comment #2642238:
men do not typically permit people who look like me to use their bathrooms.

Really? In which part of the world do you live? Here in northern Europe I remember cleaning ladies walking around in the men's bathroom at a swimming pool, and no one cared. Some girls once sneaked into a stall in the men's toilet at a party to dash out and get an eyeful of dicks, and everyone just laughed about it. My strong impression is rather that men mostly think women should have a toilet for themselves for their own modesty, but they might get offended if women don't in turn allow men their own toilets after all the decades of yapping about equality. Just tell them you have a dick (or used to) and it'll probably be fine.
Hell, Rowling herself can be observed to have the same logic going on in her head with the policy that girls are allowed to go into the boys' dorms in Hogwarts, but the stairs turn to slides if the boys try to enter the girls' dorms. Frankly hypocritical, I thought, but I generally find feminism hypocritical when equality ideas run into a bit of reality.

verifiably said in comment #2642238:
Any push to "protect women's spaces" which includes women's bathrooms means that I will be at risk going to basically any public place.

At risk of a bit of embarrassment, an "injury to your dignity" as you say, sure. I think the problem is mostly in your head. And of course, women say that transes in their restrooms present a risk to them, and I also think that risk is mostly in their heads (except of course for that time a boy said he was a girl and then raped a girl in the girls' toilet, and the multiple cases of male prisoners claiming trans status and raping female prisoners). And I can imagine plenty of guys who'd just hang out in women's restrooms because they're weird in whatever way, with the excuse that they are trans.
Whereas if a trans goes into a men's restroom they will usually be around guys who will actively intervene in assaults, don't want to assault trans women because they aren't so aggressive, or simply don't swing that way. You yourself expressed more concern with being expelled than sexual harassment or rape. So the risk seems more substantial to women. I'm not saying I care, I'm making a point about the general perception.
That, I think, is really the dynamic that you have trouble untangling. Women don't want guys going into women's shelters just because they say they identify as women, and that is what a lot of the trans people have said is all it takes to be trans. I could suggest trans get their own shelters, but then you'll run into the same problem men have - there simply isn't enough of a shit being given about them to fund such shelters. And that's because women represent the reproductive bottleneck, and men and trans don't, so evolution simply hasn't instilled in us the same protective instinct for men or trans as women benefit from (or gynocentrism, as some call it).
So I think guys can never fully adopt the female privileges no matter how trans they get. Certainly not with the current technology. Maybe some of the same job privileges, but most people will ultimately not consider trans identities real because their basic instinct tells them so.

verifiably said in comment #2642238:
Trans women are assaulted at pretty significant rates.

I've heard such claims before and was given pretty convincing reason to doubt it. Can you provide a good source?

verifiably said in comment #2642238:
but I hope you can recognize the through-line from her existing politics and beliefs to a scenario in which going outside is a risk to my health and dignity.

Okay, the idea that such policies implemented broadly will obstruct you, not just being barred from a woman's shelter or public bathrooms specifically, sure. But not so far as to generally remove you from public life, you'd at the very least still be able to engage in the same unisex public life men can, like walking around in public, talking to people as we are right now, running for office or whatever. Certainly no risk to your health.

Updated by AlsoSprachOdin

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I hope you can understand that it's difficult for me to engage with you when you seem to have taken it as a basic premise that I am not a woman, but a third gender called "trans." I am a woman. I'd like to be referred to that way.

AlsoSprachOdin said in comment #2642243:
Okay, the idea that such policies implemented broadly will obstruct you, not just being barred from a woman's shelter or public bathrooms specifically, sure. But not so far as to generally remove you from public life, you'd at the very least still be able to engage in the same unisex public life men can, like walking around in public, talking to people as we are right now, running for office or whatever. Certainly no risk to your health.

I think you may underestimate the degree to which the ability to use a public bathroom is necessary to participate in public life. If you work in an office? Consider the prospect of holding it until you get home, or praying that they've got unisex bathrooms (not all offices do!). So that's, what, a pretty significant number of white-collar jobs ruled out for you? And plenty of blue-collar jobs, too. Also, going out to restaurants, any kind of extended time in a public place – if you don't have your own computer and need to write up a resume in order to apply, you'll need to go somewhere with public computers, i.e. somewhere where you might not be permitted to use the bathrooms. Either hold it until you get home, or soil yourself (which is likely to get you removed from public spaces anyway!), or use a public bathroom.

AlsoSprachOdin said in comment #2642243:
Whereas if a trans goes into a men's restroom they will usually be around guys who will actively intervene in assaults, don't want to assault trans women because they aren't so aggressive, or simply don't swing that way. You yourself expressed more concern with being expelled than sexual harassment or rape. So the risk seems more substantial to women. I'm not saying I care, I'm making a point about the general perception.

Also: I think your understanding of men's behavior is maybe a little rosy? I've had men scream slurs and throw things at me for existing in public, often in a public library, surrounded by other people/cameras/security guards. A men's bathroom is physically isolated and does not contain security cameras. Do you think their behavior is going to improve in an environment where there are fewer checks on their behavior? I've also had men come to me (in my capacity as a librarian) to tell me that there is a woman in the men's bathroom and I need to have her removed Immediately. Even if I'm not assaulted, I'd prefer not to be harassed/physically attacked, or to have someone escalate to calling police/security because "there's someone in the wrong bathroom."

I haven't been assaulted in a men's bathroom because I don't use men's bathrooms. If I were legally barred from women's bathrooms, my risks would escalate substantially.

AlsoSprachOdin said in comment #2642243:
I've heard such claims before and was given pretty convincing reason to doubt it. Can you provide a good source?

Here, here, here.

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verifiably said:
I am a woman. I'd like to be referred to that way.

I don't think I should. Besides, I'd like you to not promote transsexualism by example or rhetoric, but we can rarely have the things we want. So I'm trying to make a compromise by not referring to you as a guy. Even if you consider yourself a woman, I expect you'll agree that you're ALSO trans.

praying that they've got unisex bathrooms

Something to check before applying obviously, and smaller workplaces in smaller buildings are a lot more likely to have those. But I'm pretty sure the vast majority of employers will let you use one bathroom or other, and that the other employers won't assault you in a place where they work.
As for restaurants, how big of a problem is that? I go to one like once a year.

I've had men scream slurs and throw things at me for existing in public

I doubt that's the whole truth of the matter, that all that lead up to such confrontations was you "existing". As you probably surmise, I'm rather what you'd call transphobic, but I still manage to be polite to the trans people I'm around (I mean I try to just not talk about trans stuff, I imagine you don't think I'm being very polite right now), even when they talk shit about istaphobes like myself to my face. Nor have I ever seen the slightest hint of trans discrimination.
So it seems improbable that it's all so black and white.

A men's bathroom is physically isolated and does not contain security cameras

But your first mentioned concern regarding restrooms was being told to leave, not violence. It makes me suspect that you're not actually so concerned about that aspect. A man seems to have as much reason to be afraid of about being alone in a restroom with a trans person as the other way around.

Here, here, here.

Couldn't you provide actual law enforcement statistics? I can't get access to the actual report being cited in the first link because the full text is behind paywalls, and too many joke papers have been peer-reviewed for me to trust academic papers without being able to read them properly.
The second one only seems to cover "hate crimes" so it doesn't provide a comparison to "non-hate crimes".
And the third is from the "National Center for Transgender Equality", and its sources seems to be surveys. Say-so just isn't enough. Ideally we'd be comparing convictions.
I can find an academic paper, too, six years newer and one that you can read in full for free: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6182901, with data of numbers of victims taken "from the website ‘Remembering Our Dead’ (https://tdor.translivesmatter.info)" and it just concludes that we don't have enough data even in the UK to make any conclusions about this.

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AlsoSprachOdin said in comment #2642317:

Something to check before applying obviously, and smaller workplaces in smaller buildings are a lot more likely to have those. But I'm pretty sure the vast majority of employers will let you use one bathroom or other, and that the other employers won't assault you in a place where they work.
As for restaurants, how big of a problem is that? I go to one like once a year.

Put it this way: I'm going to cut off an unknown, non-negligible fraction of the jobs you can work and the public spaces you can stay an extended period in. It's possible that you'll need a job very badly, and be unable to work the positions you're qualified for/earn the amount you need to sustain yourself, due to the policies of the institutions where you're looking. Your job hunt is going to take more time and involve greater overall risk. I expect you to be fine with that.

I am fortunate enough to have enough savings that I'd be able to look for a new job for some time if my employer's policies shifted, but plenty of trans people aren't, and would subsequently suffer for it.

AlsoSprachOdin said in comment #2642317:

I doubt that's the whole truth of the matter, that all that lead up to such confrontations was you "existing". As you probably surmise, I'm rather what you'd call transphobic, but I still manage to be polite to the trans people I'm around (I mean I try to just not talk about trans stuff, I imagine you don't think I'm being very polite right now), even when they talk shit about istaphobes like myself to my face. Nor have I ever seen the slightest hint of trans discrimination.
So it seems improbable that it's all so black and white.

Okay, would you like to make a suggestion about what I did to merit having objects thrown at my face in public?

AlsoSprachOdin said in comment #2642317:

But your first mentioned concern regarding restrooms was being told to leave, not violence. It makes me suspect that you're not actually so concerned about that aspect. A man seems to have as much reason to be afraid of about being alone in a restroom with a trans person as the other way around.

It seems confusing to me that you don't feel I can have more than one concern at the same time.

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GreatPremier said in comment #2641914:

Jesus she'll be at 8-10k in a month or so

It's even funnier when you realise that both wizarding_world and harry_potter_(series) only had 3.1k pieces afters 20 YEARS and Malfoid more than doubled it in a manner of month. I said it in other places and I'll say it here: Malfoid works so well because she doubles up as anykind of dere (except kuudere), gyaru or mesugaki archetype.

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